I am a medical nerd. I will read any medical memoir and almost anything on health, disease, medicine, or the body. So I was super excited to hear about Gross Anatomy: Dispatches from the Front (And Back) by Mara Altman. The book is a look at the good, bad, ugly, smelly, and glorious parts of the body, particularly the female body. I was curious to see how Altman approached it, but I was not fully prepared to be laughing out loud at regular intervals. Altman approaches the human body in a hilarious, sharp, insightful way that makes you look at everything with new eyes and gives you answers you never knew you wanted.

This book is amazing. It reminds me of Dr. Sherwin Nuland’s books How We Die and How We Live, how he went through each biological system, providing anecdotes mixed with research. You are much funnier, though. As a fellow hairy girl (hello, Jewish and Italian), the first chapter just had me in tears from laughing. I really appreciate how you smash so many taboos. Hopefully this book will start many conversations.

Thank you so much! I’m so glad you felt the book (and can relate to the hairy bits)! Also, nothing makes me happier than hearing that the book made a reader laugh out loud.

I know your book came out of the essay you wrote about body hair, “Bearded Lady.” How did you choose what topics went in the book?

When I began forming the blueprint of this book, I wrote down a long list of body parts and functions that interested me. The ones that made it into the book were the parts that I had beef with. For it to make the cut, there had to be a struggle, something I was trying to understand better or overcome. Shame came up a lot, especially with vaginal scent, body hair, hemorrhoids, sweat, and sex sounds (or in my case, the lack of sex sounds). I wanted to find a way—mostly through research and interviews—of reframing that shame into something more positive and maybe even finding a way to take pride in these “grosser” things. Ultimately, in most cases, I found that there is greatness in our grossness—even PMS!

If you could add one or two more chapters, what would they be?

I’m very drawn to pimples, so I’d probably dig into that subject (so to speak). I’d not only look into how they form and what they are exactly, but also why so many of us compulsively pop them and even compulsively watch other people pop them. Why is it so nauseatingly satisfying?! Then I’d use the fact that I was writing a chapter about pimples to see if Dr. Pimple Popper would let me watch a live taping of her show. It’d be so dreamy to have her lance one of my own!

Another little piece I might add would be about saliva. Now that I have babies, it is one of the main liquids in my life and yet I know very little about it.

I read some of the book in an eye doctor’s waiting room (dilating pupils be damned) and was literally snickering out loud during the lice chapter. Most of the time I found myself smiling as I read it, which was great. What was your process when researching and writing this?

It was a very slow process. I went topic by topic. Before writing each chapter, I did a lot of free writing about why the subject interested me personally, trying to find the anecdote that would kick off the chapter and the core question that would become the focus of my investigation. Then I’d report the shit out of the topic. I cast my net wide, contacting as many researchers who specialized in the topic from different areas of academia—anthropology, sociology, psychology, women’s studies, biology, etc.—as possible. Often times, one person would lead me to the next. For example, in the chapter about sex sounds, I found out through a grunting specialist that the grunt sound comes from physical exertion, but to find out how it also came to signify pleasure, I then had to contact a neuroscientist who has studied orgasm. In that chapter alone, I conducted about 35 interviews. Once I have all my interviews, I then transcribe them all, highlight the lines that jump out to me, and then I start piecing the story together. I also test out facts on people kind of how a comedian might test out jokes on unassuming friends. I throw out a fact in casual conversation and see what kind of reaction I get. If it’s a surprised/excited/interested response, I know it’s a keeper.

The process also includes a lot of self-doubt, wine, coffee, Pilates, phone calls to friends, phone calls to my mom, washing the dishes, and poorly-timed naps.

Did you go into it knowing the kinds of research you would do for each chapter, or did that come later, as things came up in the writing?

As I start a new subject, I tend to have a good idea of where I’m going to do my research and who I want to talk to, but as I mentioned, often one person leads me to another person. In other words, it’s the research I do that tends to lead me to new avenues of research and questioning, but once I start writing, my research is usually complete.

Now that you’ve been through pregnancy and birth, do you think you’ll do a similar book on that?

I’ve definitely entertained the idea of writing a book about pregnancy and birth. As you know, so much crazy happens to the body during that nine-month process. There would be a ton to explore. Why did my petite areolas turn into pepperonis? Will they ever go back? Why can’t I keep in a fart anymore? And how did a Cheerio get in my underwear? The possibilities are endless and exciting (and hopefully relatable), but while that subject matter is very compelling to me, I’m also so surrounded by babies at the moment that it might be nice to jump into something completely different for a bit, like a roundup of California’s best tacos or a book about soil composition. Refreshing!

Ha! Oh man, that hits home. I finally understand why moms often cross their legs when they sneeze, for example.

Most likely, I’ll do some smaller projects before deciding to delve into my next massive one. Plus, it’ll be interesting to see how Gross Anatomy lands with people before serving them up another dose. Ultimately, I really love writing about and researching issues I’ve experienced in real life. It helps me process what I’ve been through, as well as connect deeply with others.

What have you done to maintain a space for yourself and your work (writing and otherwise) within motherhood? I know you had twins last year and I remember that first year with a sort of PTSD-imbued tinge—and I only had one!

No doubt, having babies is super intense. When my babies turned two months old, I was lucky enough to be able to hire a nanny for five hours a day for five days a week. She allowed me the time I needed to put the final touches on my manuscript and just to feel human. I’d take a shower, grocery shop and/or get a cup of coffee. What a treat!

I find that for writing, I not only need time to write, but I need time to prepare to write. It can be a frustrating process filled with a lot of staring at a screen and saying things to myself like, “It shouldn’t be so hard Mara, you just need a couple more sentences on vaginal odor.” That is to say, I need more time to write than I think I need, because I need two hours or so to rev up, form a thought, and then berate myself properly. I’m not sure what point, if any, I just made, but let’s just say it’s all still a work in progress.

Also, and this isn’t something I share with many people (so much for that), but in some ways, I have it easier because I have twins. It is not possible, in my experience, to coddle two babies at once. You must become efficient—i.e. feeding time isn’t snuggle time, it is an assembly line—and the babies need to be comfortable, if not with multiple people, then at least with someone else. That means I’m not the sole person who can calm or comfort them. Phew! And very early on, I also learned to let go and accept help because there was no surviving if I didn’t. The babies, therefore, also had to get flexible (and patient!) from the get-go. So what I’m saying is another thing that allowed me space for myself and my writing, which I often take for granted, is that I luckily have adaptable babies.

Also sleep training! Sleep training saved what I have left of my brains!

Despite all of this supposed space creation, I cannot say this has been my most productive work year. In my personal life, it’s been a phenomenal amount of work. Also, it’s been surprisingly gratifying for someone who usually measures productivity in accomplishments.

How do you think the creative community can support women, and mothers, especially?

Grants for daycare? Scholarships to cover nannies? I think having unfettered free time is so healing and essential for mothers’ mental health. I haven’t done any research on this and I’ve only been a mom for a very short time, but from what I’ve observed, having time to oneself is HUGE. MASSIVE. ESSENTIAL. I’m not sure the creative community can swing that though, so that’s probably more of a governmental issue.

I think the creative community can help by taking an interest in and focusing on women’s and mothers’ stories, ones from all walks of life. The more we know about one another’s lives, the more we can empathize, be compassionate, and share in the joy and/or plight (as well as care enough to fight for affordable/subsidized baby care). So I think showcasing the creative work from mothers and women, as well as putting women and mothers in positions at publishing houses, production companies, and galleries where they choose and curate content is important. I was extremely lucky at Putnam to be working with a team of women. About two-thirds through writing my book, I found out I was pregnant with the twins. I was terrified to tell my editorial team, because it’d likely mean I’d be late with the book. But it turned out awesome; they shared in the joy (shock) of the news, did not waver in their support of my work and gave me assurance that even if there was a delay, they were still 100% in. That’s what I would wish for every working woman, not only in the creative realm.

That’s amazing. And so, so true.

What are you struggling with, as a parent and as a writer, right now?

Mostly I’m struggling with time. Even with the part-tim nanny, I never feel like I’m getting enough done. My “work time” is often spent doing errands and cleaning up around the house. When I finally sit down to write, I only have an hour or two, which is just enough time to mentally prepare myself for taking over care of the babies. I’m also weirdly enjoying the time with my babies—before I had kids, I didn’t realize people were being honest when they said they liked hanging out with their progeny—so I’m reluctant at the moment to get more childcare. I’m a little bit at an impasse.

Also, I always think that once I put the babies down for the night, I’ll be able to tear through all of my work, but in reality, I consistently plop on the sofa and go brain dead with the help of a Netflix binge. I’m hoping that as they get older, I’ll find a better balance.

I totally get that—that’s me, every night. I put my son to bed and vow to make headway on my writing, or do some work for a gig that I didn’t get done earlier… and find myself passed out on the couch, waking up 3 hours later.

What books inspire you, and what are you reading right now?

So, I’m going to be honest with you, I have not completed a book since I gave birth, but I have started and made it halfway through about 16 books. Usually, I consume books like they’re tubs of hummus and I’m really good at consuming hummus tubs. I’m not sure what has happened. Have I not found the right book? Is my brain broken? Happy to hear any theories! The latest two books that I’m halfway through are The Hate U Give (important!) and The Awakened Family (fascinating, but a bit redundant!).

When I read nonfiction that is not related to my research, I’m drawn toward books about psychology, specifically ones by psychologists who write about case studies like Kramer’s Should You Leave?, Yalom’s Love’s Executioner and Phillips’ On Kissing, Tickling and Being Bored. They investigate the layers of thought, action and connection, which ends up being a highly reflective reading experience for me. Cheap therapy!

Oh Yalom is amazing!

ALSO, I’D LIKE TO ADD ONE MORE THING: READERS ARE THE ABSOLUTE BEST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET. THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO READS.

What advice would you give to a writer trying to juggle parenthood and writing?

I would actually like to get some advice on this myself. It’s early enough that I don’t think I’ve nailed down the best tactics. My own ability to juggle is subpar. You know, I’ve been working from home and I’m thinking that’s not a great method. It means that I’m going to Swiffer instead of get another paragraph down. It means that if a baby is screaming, I’m going to go check and see what’s going on even if I don’t want to know. It means that if I think of something to write, I’m going to go to the kitchen and make some spaghetti. I need to get my ass to a co-working space or even a coffee shop.

Of course, as mentioned before, unfettered free time is essential to create. You need to have time when you are not supposed to be watching the kids. Watching kids is awesome because they are a joy and you are so much in the moment (of them trying to stick their fingers up your dog’s butt), but it also doesn’t allow for the focus and deep thinking needed to put words down on the page. And naptime doesn’t count, because there is this feeling that they could wake up at any moment and ruin my flow so I just don’t get into the flow so that I don’t have to be upset when my flow is disrupted. Related: I am such a great procrastinator.

There is a cool thing about juggling parenthood and writing, though! I’ve found that my anxiety levels have gone down significantly. I used to lay awake at night regretting every word I wrote that day or getting down on myself for not getting more done, but now I don’t have time to be concerned. Also, the anxiety is spread more thinly over more things. It’s all really much more bearable now somehow.

What’s next on the horizon for you?

For the next few months, I’m going to put my all into birthing this book into the world. It is the third baby I’m having this year and I want it to have as good a life as possible. I also really believe that the facts and ideas I uncover in the book are important and can help women have a much more no-fucks-to-give kind of approach to their bodies and body functions. There is nothing to be apologetic about—hemorrhoids to pit stains—and I’m going to put as much time and energy as possible into spreading that word! After that, I’m planning to enjoy my babies as much as possible as they develop sibling rivalry and learn to run in opposite directions while we are at the park. I am also excited to find my next big subject. There is nothing like waking up and being eager to write down some words.

Jaime Rochelle Herndon graduated with her MFA in creative nonfiction from Columbia and is a writer and editor living in NYC. She is a contributor at Book Riot and a writing instructor at Apiary Lit, and her writing can be seen on Healthline and New York Family Magazine, among others.

Author photo by Pablo Mason.